Rant. About web browsers no less.

[genlisae]

I keep running into people who notice I use Firefox and they get this weird look and go “Why would you still use that? Get Chrome.”

Um. No.

Aside from one of the most visually clunky interfaces I have ever seen (using it seems pretty clunky too, though I notice the latest versions of Firefox default to a similarly clunky UI. Really Mozilla? What’s with that?) Chrome is glitchy, updates are frequently scary (especially for those who upgrade within a few days of the release) and it still has compatibility and speed issues.

All of that aside though, it jumps on my biggest browser related pet-peeve ever (this problem is not specific to Chrome, but I will get to that in a moment) and fails to preform the simple function of fully recognizing CSS!

Seriously. Going on 16 years since CSS 1 specification was introduced. There is zero reason for a new browser to fail recognizing simple CSS and I promise, if I am doing it, it is very simple CSS.

I redid my journal layout yesterday (checkerboard overload!) with the intention of a brighter, easier to read for those who have issue with light text on a dark background and overall cleaner (though not necessarily less busy) look. With those goals in mind, and, given that I am a designer by training, the little details are important. The little details like say the colour of the borders!

What should visitors to my journal be seeing? (Right, please ignore the other tabs. The thought occurs that taken out of context and when presented all together like this the topics of said tabs could be a little worrisome)

This, as presented by Firefox, is exactly as it should appear. The checkerboard background with a transparent purple overlay containing the main elements and 50% grey, ridged borders. There is actually quite a lot of transparency at work in this design and while there are some older (really old) and mobile browsers which may be unable to display the transparency, I have accounted for that as well. For standard browsing on a PC/Mac or similarly capable mobile device this is what visitors should be seeing.

Opera is equally capable of presenting the design as it should be and while Opera has issues of its own (less now than the last time I used it with any degree of seriousness I hear) properly displaying page elements is not one of them.

Enter Google Chrome.

What happened to my borders?

Yes, I know, it a small thing in the grander scheme, but it begs the question: If something this small, this simple can be overlooked, screwed up or however it is the Google programmers managed to fail this when they set out to build Chrome (I have my suspicions, something which should have been compensated for) , what else did they plain and simply drop the ball on? What else are Chrome users missing? Made worse by, in the case of things like this, they would never even know.

What about Safari?

Right down to an identical shifting of page elements. From this it is safe to assume the real issue to be the Webkit engine both browsers (and a significant number of mobile browsers)  run on and is somehow related to how it reads/displays Hex codes in CSS.  However, if Gecko (Firefox) can do it and Presto (Opera) can do it, why can’t Webkit? One would think with 14 years (Webkit can trace its origins to 1998) and starting in a web environment which already included CSS, full CSS compliance would be a given. One would apparently be wrong and if one is me and attempting to write CSS for a new layout without having to duplicate several elements to accomplish what is essentially a smack upside the head for fail browser engines, one starts to wonder what in hell 28% of internet users can possibly find so damn great about this browser!

Yeah, I will get to tweaking the CSS to optimize it for Webkit based browsers. Eventually.

I do have to grant the Chrome users one small bit of leeway though, (and yes I know 20.8% of those reading this entry are using Chrome, it isn’t personal, if it works for you, great. Firefox is far from perfect either and apparently doesn’t work at all for some, simply more polished, but you are missing out) at least they are not among the 34.2% (30.2% for this journal, still not personal, but I do wonder why) using I.E. with all of its built in security risks and this …

There are (a lot of!) I.E. specific lines of CSS in the new layout in an attempt to get it to recognize the transparency … and the borders. All of which become useless depending on how upgraded/not upgraded the version of I.E. you are using is. There is a magic window in there somewhere where the transparency works. I’ll be damned if I know what that window is, and frankly, I don’t feel like writing a small dictionary of code to cover all the rest of the configurations. The borders? Yeah, they never work.

Comments

[klokwatcher.livejournal.com]

That's odd that Chrome reacts like that and takes the borders away. I would have never known your page had borders without this. D: I use Chrome at work and home simply because it works faster than Firefox. I'm not sure if this is internet provider specific (though I can't see why it would be) or what. Opening Firefox here at the office takes at least 2.5 minutes to get to the homepage. I really don't know why. I used to love Firefox, it was only recently that I swapped to Chrome. I'd go back if I knew how to fix the speed issue.

People still use IE? I had no idea it was still viable.

[genlisae.livejournal.com]

IE still has the largest single percentage of users on the internet (and I have no idea why ... habit maybe? Or because it comes with every Windows OS and there are no extra steps involved? *shrug*).

The thing about Chrome is I can see the potential. The V8 Javascript engine is wonderful and gives it an advantage over other browsers there, but on a basic level (web standard compliance, initial stability of releases/patches) it is lacking.

Plus, I hate the UI. That is a completely personal opinion though.

Have you tried the newer versions of Firefox? I had a similar issue when first upgrading to 4 from 3.6 (and actually reverted to 3.6 again until 8 was released) but from 8 on it has been solid for me.

[klokwatcher.livejournal.com]

IE is still winning in most used browser? I'm legit shocked by that, though you do have a point. It is what comes already installed on pretty much every PC (save for custom built rigs, I suppose).

I've never had a problem with Chrome and it's patches, but I'm nearly as tech savvy as some. It's completely likely I've just never noticed the glitches and problems.

UI could use some tweaks, I'll agree there. Sometimes it's ridiculous trying to find what I need with it. :(

Just downloaded the latest version of Firefox here at work and I'm testing it out now. Seems to be working MUCH better after I got rid of some custom add-on the boss had downloaded to customize the search bar with. Things do look different in FF as opposed to Chrome. I always thought the background of your text area was white. Turns out it's got a purple tint!

Random aside- Thought I'd tell you I have a grown up version of Tel in my game. He made an appearance in the first chapter of the story I just put up if you want to see. He's just kind of around in the back ground, but I know you mentioned at one point wanting to know if he (or any of your others) ended up being used elsewhere. You can find that here.

[genlisae.livejournal.com]

Chrome's UI kind of reminds me of the Office "Ribbon". I don't know which freak (said with the utmost love, I am a freak who is okay with menus taking up the top 1/4 of the screen but damn it! Get the Photoshop toolbar to hell out of my way!) they listened to to conclude that the menus were taking up too much space, but really, THAT was not the solution!

Like with any other program, Chrome has those it works for and those it doesn't. Some have no problems with updates and patches, others have those same patches locking up their system or unable to even open the browser. It happens. Just when combined with not displaying things correctly is too much for me to deal with. Actually the not displaying things correctly alone is too much ... but I am pretty sure everyone kind of worked that out by now :D

And now I am off to go read your story (and add your sims journal. I meant to do that when I read the intro ... I also meant to comment as soon as I wasn't doing 12 other things ... err ... yeah! I forgot. Sorry :/)

[klokwatcher.livejournal.com]

I kind of see what the idea was with the "sleek" (aka "we have no menus here") tool bar. I think it was supposed to be aesthetically pleasing and allow you to see more of your page (because, you know, that tiny bit makes a big difference...). I think this kind of cut into it's functionality, though. I like being able to find what I'm looking for without spending ten minutes figuring out how to get there.

Chrome, for me, works fine as your run of the mill browser. (So far! I'm hoping I didn't just jinx myself.) Though, now that I've seen the tweaks it makes (ie- taking away the boarders and displaying the back ground as white) I kind of wonder what else it glazes over. Either way, installing Firefox as we speak. I kind of enjoyed using it at work today so installing it at home seems like the next logical step. ^_^

And now I'm nervous about the story. I'm pretty sure it has a few mistakes (or several). Don't worry about forgetting, 12 other things sounds pretty busy! lol :D

[raeraesama.livejournal.com]

Chrome fans are...weird. I honestly fail to see why it's 'better' than Firefox. But then, I'm not a huge fan of the UI either.

[genlisae.livejournal.com]

The "better" has always puzzled me as well. They all have their strengths and weaknesses (some more weakness than strength ... *cough*IE*cough* ... ). From a strictly visual standpoint with a hefty dose of opinion Firefox (and Opera) came out clearly ahead in this instance.

[bolob.livejournal.com]

I have all those browsers save for Safari, bc it was a bitch. I like your update - of course, im looking at it on my phone, so i cant give a fair assessment, but hey, to each your own on what browser you like usin. Im not hatin. Variety is the spice of life my friend.

[genlisae.livejournal.com]

Variety is absolutely a good thing and totally a personal choice here. I just really needed to vent because after you go through the whole planing stage and then write out the CSS to make it work and tweak all the little things that need tweaking and finally get it live in a browser it is incredibly frustrating to have all of that be tossed out because of weak coding on the part of the browser.

Hair pulling type frustrating.

(totally waiting for someone to come along and tell me it isn't weak coding, just different ... mmm, sorry, lack of standard compliance is weak coding.)

[bolob.livejournal.com]

You're preachin to the choir on that. Been there, done that. There is some sort of conflict between what the maker wanted and what the brower gives a fuck to show, I agree and if anyone says I'm wrong, I'll kick their ass! (Just Kidding)

[abstract-pixels.livejournal.com]

How about IE 6 :D ? People are STILL using that. I genuinly tried to adapt coding to it, I did, but I ended up punching things! I could care less about newer IE versions now, it says something about being professional doesn't it xD? I used Chrome when my FF went highwire and I couldn't get the UI to work logically, even with the mods. I usually have lots of anti-ad, anti-script, developer add-onns running and Chrome only had AdBlock. In the office I use FF 3.6 and at home 10.0, both work perfectly.

[genlisae.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, I would be lost without the Web Developer tools.

but I ended up punching things!

This! This is exactly what prompted this whole rant! No, I don't do web design very often (and a large portion of the why is also that statement!) but when I do I get so frustrated trying to make it work across the various browsers. I will never understand why they all have to do everything so differently and I don't just mean the different engines, the engines all serve a purpose and handle various tasks in different ways, I mean make the various engines standard compliant so when the various end products get to the viewer it hasn't cost some poor designer/coder half a head of hair, several years of their life and a wall that now needs patching!

But then print is no better. If I start thinking about the various colour profiles (Machine, OS, Monitor, does whatever is being designed also have to be web compliant and oh god the printer colour profiles ... don't get me started on printer profiles) I get the overwhelming urge to hide in a corner sobbing and mumbling interesting things like "It's not red, too much blue, the cyan is bleeding!"

err ... yeah. And it should now be abundantly clear why I stopped doing design professionally.
*edited for typing fail

[abstract-pixels.livejournal.com]

Everyone wants to win the Flashy Browser Award! I understand different standards for un-internet-related software, but browsers have to be universal! I played the Colour Game with my PC and Mac for years, I've nver won xD .

[prudensh.livejournal.com]

My (Government) workplace still uses IE 6. Trying to browse(let alone leave a comment on) anyone's blog -in my lunch break of course-is hysterical. And of course I'm banned from trying to modify my computer in any way, and all sites categorized as 'gaming' or 'social networking' are flat-out blacklisted.
Anyway, at home I like Firefox, just because I like it. When I'm Simming at the same time, Chrome seems to slow my game down. Having Firefox open doesn't seem to hog half the resources that Chrome does.

[abstract-pixels.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to be allowed to do anything I want with my work computer (never tried to throw it our of the window ;) ) - night shift privilage! My mum also worked for the government, her laptop had IE6 and a memory clogging antivirus :P . Chrome starts multiply processes for me - each for every tab and add-ons.